Over on Out of Ur, Skye Jethani has written an interesting reflection on Christopher Nolan’s second Batman film, The Dark Knight. He relates the film’s lack of an origin story for the Joker to the way the Bible discusses evil’s origin. Jethani says:
I wonder if the lack of a back-story for evil in the Bible is related to Nolan and Goyer’s rationale for ignoring the Joker’s back-story? Without an explanation or origin, God is emphasizing the utter meaninglessness and anarchy of evil. It cannot be understood; it cannot be rationalized. To do otherwise would be to legitimize its place in his creation or to create sympathy for an enemy that deserves none….
Answers to all of our questions about the origin of evil are not found in the Scriptures, which means that God, the Writer and Director of this cosmic drama, did not deem them necessary for the story he wanted to tell. Are we satisfied with that, or must we continue to contrive answers for ourselves? My guess is that Christians would find themselves in less trouble theologically, culturally, and politically if we stuck with the questions God has chosen to answer, and immersed ourselves in the story he has chosen to tell.
As a Christian who has listened to, read, and even made several attempts to explain why evil exists and who hasn’t been fully convinced by any of them, I like the direction Jethani takes. The Bible doesn’t seem to occupy itself with answering why evil exists or even asking the question. Instead, the Bible takes evil’s presence as a given and focuses on God dealing with it. This lack of an origin story may not be the most comforting message in my questioning, but it does redirect my focus to look for God’s redemptive work in the world rather than fixating on the evil’s existence.
Tyler
8 responses so far ↓
Faith // September 7, 2008 at 9:45 pm |
However, the question of which actions were started by the Pope and which were started by Ratzinger remains unanswered. Faith
Tom // September 9, 2008 at 9:08 pm |
Important stuff, but I wasn’t sure what either you or Skye were getting at here.
What’s the practical downside in seeking a creation story for evil for folks in your generation?
I agree that the Bible doesn’t give one, but I’m very interested in why both of you feel this is important.
On one level I felt comfortable with this take on ‘evil’:
‘It cannot be understood; it cannot be rationalized. To do otherwise would be to legitimize its place in his creation or to create sympathy for an enemy that deserves none….’
In another way, I guess I’m so used to Christians moving from profound theology to questionable applications that I’m always on my guard. George Bush could have used this quote in one of his speeches demonizing poor and ideological Muslims.
I’d add, too, that the Bible isn’t really that interested in a realistic explanation of human origins, or even any explanation of how God got his gig.
Seems like the first chapters of Genesis are all about creation myths that are already hip deep in and really about the contemporary cultural and political battles of the original ‘oral poets and storytellers.’ That’s not to say that the myths aren’t revelatory or true. It’s just to say that we may not know much more about the origins of good or God than we do about the origins of evil.
Tyler // September 11, 2008 at 6:51 pm |
Tom, I don’t know if you read all of Jethani’s original post, but I don’t think one can find in it a posture toward evil that you attribute to George Bush, so if someone were to apply it in such a way, they would be unfaithful to the post’s point. When Jethani speaks of evil — and I follow him in my post — he speaks of the simple existence of evil or the existence of the Enemy in the Bible and he relates the Joker to this pure embodiment of evil, or the Joker as the devil. Jethani doesn’t discuss the evil actions we commit against each other, nor does he say that any human could actually be a pure embodiment of evil as the Joker is in The Dark Knight.
My post discusses the classic Christian question of the problem of evil. Much ink has been spilled regarding its origin and as I said in the post, I’ve never been fully satisfied with any of the answers given. The fact remains that the Bible doesn’t even raise this question of where did evil or the Enemy come from.
As you know, I’m not one to speak for my generation or any demographic of which I am a part. My point, that I take from Jethani, is that it might be in our best interest to ask questions of the Bible that it intends to answer. It may not speak of evil’s origin, but it has much to say about how God deals with evil. My interest is to follow what the Bible actually has to say. No biblical writer has said we need to understand evil’s origin to address it, but they have said the way God defeats it is through love and self-sacrifice.
Tom // September 12, 2008 at 2:06 pm |
I think I articulated myself poorly. Never post after 9 pm :^)
As I say, I agree that the bible gives us no unambiguous explanation for the origin of evil, and particularly not in the creation narratives. My comments re Jethani’s quote about evil were meant to move the discussion forward by pointing out how easy it is to move from theological formulations to unhelpful applications. My experience is that lots of us—particularly more conservative brothers and sisters—can too readily identify the common falleness we normally encounter each day with absolute evil. The common sin we run across regularly is normally generated by other people or groups, and in almost all cases those individuals and groups can be understood, their actions can be rationalized, and their trespasses can and should be sympathized with. There is evil in the world, but I think the term should be used very sparingly, in part because of the dangers of demonization and the awful results of dehumanizing ‘enemies.’ When it’s thrown around gratuitously, particularly in political contexts, it does far more damage than good. M. Scott Peck—in People of the Lie–did a nice job a few years back of trying to get at what real evil in this world looks like and takes a crack at distinguishing it from common falleness.
But my main question was to ask what practical difference does it make when Christians stop wondering about why evil exists, or put differently, stop asking how things can be so messed up if God is in control. In my experience, that quest to understand evil and injustice is a basic spiritual drive of most people–it’s hard to imagine what most people’s spirituality would look like without it. So I think it’s no small thing to suggest that people not be concerned about it. Maybe the Bible doesn’t address the issue—more on that in a minute—but does that mean that people should stop being concerned about it? If so, I would think there would have to be very powerful practical reasons for counseling people against doing so.
I guess I was wondering what you thought (only on behalf of yourself and not on behalf of your entire generation :^) those powerful practical reasons are. And not just you, but anybody else who is reading. How does ridding oneself of those concerns help a person live a better Christian life? I can think of some plausible answers, but I’m interested in what other people think. I think it’s a fascinating and potentially important issue.
I also think that it’s not surprising that the bible doesn’t attempt to address that issue in a creation narrative. To do so would inevitably implicate an all powerful creator God as the author of both good and evil. Seems to me that other communities and books in the bible go ahead and make that implication and declaration, but the folks that did Genesis chose not to go that route, in my mind for very understandable reasons.
Tyler // September 15, 2008 at 6:02 am |
Thanks for the clarification Tom. I agree wholeheartedly that trying to understand why evil and injustice exist is one of the most basic spiritual quests or drives. In fact, I’m aware of some apologetics using the question of evil’s existence as its starting point.
My concern is that if that is our most pressing question, the Christian story isn’t going to have much of a convincing answer as to evil’s origins. I think the practical implication is to basically say, “I don’t know why God would evil, but I know that God has defeated it and is defeating it in our world.” I don’t want to discount that some people have been convinced of certain theodicies. What I want to know is whether those theodicies drive us toward participating in the work God is doing in the world. I want to know what the main result is that answer to the problem of evil tries to bring about. Not that there is anything wrong with comforting doubt per se, but I think the push of Jesus’ message is toward discipleship more than silencing cognitive dissonance.
I suppose my problem is not the questions, but the answers, or the effects that the answers bring about. The Bible certainly takes evil seriously — and is equally troubled by its existence — and I think we would receive much more comfort and inspiration if we were to follow what it says about evil.
Tom // September 17, 2008 at 8:12 pm |
Thanks for the practical and thoughtful response.
Getting people involved in doing concrete good for others–particularly doing good for the most at risk–is the real deal.
Seems like motivation is a key.
Theodicies aren’t all that from that point of view. We’re on the same page there. Just another example of over thinking things and maybe another example of justifying what we do to other people.
I think we’ve got to encourage both the natural sense of anger at injustice and the prophetic version of the same feeling if we’re going to see conservative Christians become more effective agents of social change.
Skye Jethani // September 25, 2008 at 10:29 am |
Tyler,
Thanks for posting my article. I’m glad you found it helpful, even if I don’t answer any of the deeper questions that we all have about the origins of evil. I still believe the church and Christians would find great freedom if we had more courage to say, “I don’t know” more often. It might make the things to say we do know more credible.
Blessings,
a helmet // October 14, 2008 at 6:35 am |
Yes, there is no disquisition on the problem of evil in the scripture. Rather any human attempt to gain knowledge about evil is actually a repetition of what could be called “Adam’s method”: eating from the “tree of knowledge of good and evil”. Man wants to know the truth about good and evil, so he takes of the fruit to receive knowledge. Yet all supposed answers only pose new questions and shift the problme only farther ahead. Eating from the tree of knowledge only causes more darkness, that is, more confusion and less knowledge of truth. “Why is there evil?” man asks. -Bite of the fruit of the tree of knowledge! “If evil is just an illusion, isn’t this illusion itself evil?” -Bite! “If the tree of knowledge was a danger, why did God plant it?” – Bite! “The serpent tempted man, where did it come from?” – Bite! “And why did man have the ability to disobey anyway?” – Bite! “Why did God not guard the forbidden tree? Doesn’t this make God responsible for the Fall of man? – Bite! “So why did God allow evil anyway?” – Bite!
And so on and so forth.
Any man-made attempt to resolve the “problem of evil” is a bite of the tree of knowledge thereof. And it only increases the darkness, the lack of knowledge. It causes evil. Evil is highly self-respective. The attempts to rationalize it give rise to evil. Evil seems to be its own cause. It is irrational and unaccountable. Evil’s own unaccountability is its chief problem. For could it be explained, it could thereby be excused. And that must not be.